we entered wars in iraq and afghanistan. but i think after 9/11, there was an understanding in congress the debt ceiling was raised during those years. >> right. >> now, the public is -- you know, really the place where the far right of the republican party, the tea party caucus, if you will, the traditional republican establishment and the vast majority of independent voters, the place where there is the most consensus among those groups is around the size and the cost of the federal government. so certainly drawing a line in the sand against increasing this country's debt and against raising taxes is not an extreme position. it actually represents the desires of the mainstream of america. >> james, the president painted out to be the pragmatic centrist here. he said i'm willing to make the liberals angry too. but we have to get something done. he's in a tough position right now. how does he sort of find a way to reconcile this with this countdown ticking? >> well, i think he is in a tough position and i think a lot of repu